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October 12, 2008 Est 1999 Scotland's award-winning independent newspaper
THE BATTLE FOR LABOUR'S SOUL
Part 1: Westminster
The crisis in the party ... north and south of the border

TWO YEARS before Labour won the 1997 general election, Tony Blair boasted that the Conservative Party was split, that John Major had effectively given in. "The white flag flies over Downing Street", Blair proclaimed. Thirteen years on, and in the heat of a war to save his premiership, Gordon Brown has yet to show any sign that he's ready to hoist up Major's old flag. A September reshuffle of the Cabinet has been scheduled, along with a mini-budget to fast-track new financial policies. And there remains the possibility that his leader's speech at the annual conference in Manchester will signal to the wider party that they have little choice but to back him and no time to hesitate about it. But can Brown make it to the conference?

The barely coded criticism of Brown last week by the foreign secretary, David Miliband, was the first public display of a deeper, private war, with those supposedly close and loyal to the prime minister waiting for the right time and the right opportunity to act collectively to force Brown to accept he can no longer remain in Number 10.

But the reaction to Miliband's attempt to position himself as Labour's Caesar-in-waiting has shown up the hesitancy that still surrounds the plotters. Critics of Miliband believe that any coup to oust Brown will be a kamikaze suicide mission. Any new leader, be it Miliband or Alan Johnson or Jack Straw or Harriet Harman, would have to call a general election, which would be held before there were any positive signs of an economic recovery. With the party still saddled with massive debts and a huge overdraft, a general election is something Labour simply can't afford right now.

Others, even in the senior ranks of Labour, however, believe that Brown remaining as leader is the one thing they can no longer afford. While Brown and those advisers around him in Downing Street know the daggers are out, there's a belief that the prime minister can still survive a limited assassination attempt if it's organised while the Commons is on holiday and when the strategic glue necessary for a successful regicide is at its weakest.

Fears, however, remain that a unified move against Brown will show up the weakness of his grip on power. The loss of Labour's third safest Scottish seat in the Glasgow East by-election, where a majority of 13,500 evaporated, was the catalyst that accelerated the readiness of potential challengers. Miliband's article in The Guardian last week and his numerous television and radio appearances were not naive and ill-timed. But where Miliband's ambition and stall are now well laid out, others such as Alan Johnson and Harriet Harman are playing a low-profile waiting game that emphasises loyalty, but nevertheless have would-be supporters ready to back them if Brown acknowledges he is surrounded and cannot take the full support of the Cabinet with him into the next parliamentary year.

Brown and his senior Downing Street staff cannot be seen to panic at the below-radar manoeuvring going on around him. But nor can his aides simply accept Miliband had a right to speak as he did.

Number 10's reflex briefing against Miliband, which branded him "disloyal" and "immature" shows the siege mentality that currently exists in Downing Street. With the Conservatives ahead in the polls by 20% and more, the Tories on course for a landslide and Brown's popularity ratings as low as any leader in modern British political history, the pessimism is said to be acute.

The planned September reshuffle has been designed to show that Brown still has plans to rejuvenate his government and himself. But according to one minister, it could backfire.

"A reshuffle means that everyone inside the Cabinet will now take stock of where they stand, of where their careers are. It also means everyone is reminded of how much time they have left. And no-one is looking beyond the new election," said one minister, who added: "Calculations will have been made: what do I owe Gordon, what do I owe the party, what do I owe to my family and myself? If daggers have been taken out of drawers, this may be the opportunity to sharpen them for some, and for others to think very carefully of what removing another prime minister will do."



Part 2 - Who will wield the dagger in the cabinet?
Part 3 - Holyrood - Gray supporter bought campaign website before Alexander quit
Part 4 - What do we in Scottish Labour need in our nation's new political landscape? A leader with guts to stand up to Westminster

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Posted by: Andy on 10:58pm Sat 2 Aug 08
A reshuffle? Isn't that what they danced on the water filled decks as the Titanic went down?

Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 11:01pm Sat 2 Aug 08
It's interesting that Brown is still far more popular North of the border than South. Stange given that he is very unpopular in Scotland.. However, even more important than that is that he is far more popular than any Labour successors. YouGov showed that if he's replaced the Labour party in Scotland would be competing with the LibDems for fourth place.

Ok, here's the choice: Milliband or Cameron running Scotland from London or Salmond and independence.

The words 'brainer' and 'no' spring to mind.
Posted by: Scotsgait, www.scotsgait.co.uk on 11:04pm Sat 2 Aug 08
Currently 89% of voters in the Scotsgait poll believe that the SNP will hold Glasgow East at the General Election. If that's the case, Labour has got big, big problems.

___________

Glasgow East - short term rebellion or long term reality ? Cast your vote in the latest Scotsgait poll
Posted by: Iainbroch, Moray on 11:06pm Sat 2 Aug 08
Er What soul? Seems like a pointless battle over nothing! As they have no soul!
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 11:09pm Sat 2 Aug 08
It's pointless removing Brown. Milliband, Straw, Harperson, what does it matter ? The fact that Labour have not moved to remove Brown from his catastrophic premiership shows how utterly devoid of ideas, vision, and people to deliver them they are.
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 11:26pm Sat 2 Aug 08
There is only one thing stopping Scotland getting
her independence and it is not England, nor
is it Westminster, but rather the Labour Party.
The have ruled Scotland incompetently and
corruptly for decades resulting in
embarrassing levels of poverty and under
performance where Scotland has been
treated like their personal fiefdom and
second class nation where her resources
are pillaged at will.

Labour deserves to be destroyed and then
Scotland and England will both be
free to follow their unique aspirations
in the world. In Scotland Labour have
already lost half of their councillors,
the Scottish Government, control of
most of their councils and their
membership is facing extinction. Another
decade of England based Tory rule
is upon us, and Labour at most will
just re-enact their "feeble-fifty"
performance under Thatcher. The
"quality" of their people is now only
too plain to see - they are basically
in the main talentless nobodies who
have only got to their positions
via their parties corrupt network,
and once their they have buried their
snouts in the troughs to feather
their own nests.

Let's help to put the last few nails
in the coffin of Labour and everybody
will benefit from their passing.

Saor Alba
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 11:32pm Sat 2 Aug 08
Posted by: Iainbroch, Moray on 11:06pm today
Er What soul? Seems like a pointless battle over nothing! As they have no soul!


They have no soul, no morals, no principles and definately no dignity.
Oh yes and they have no money.
Posted by: Mev Brown, Edinburgh on 11:35pm Sat 2 Aug 08
The writing is on the wall for Labour, north and south of the border.

The biggest threat to the union is not the SNP, but the collective incompetence of the unionist parties. Join the unionist friends of (ufo-) theSNP and put them out of their collective misery.
Posted by: Jimbo on 11:39pm Sat 2 Aug 08
"Calculations will have been made: what do I owe Gordon, what do I owe the party, what do I owe to my family and myself?


Probably listed his priorities in reverse order here.

This minister kind of sums up the Labour Party mentality. Me, myself and I. No thought or mention for the country or the people he's supposed to serve.
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 11:46pm Sat 2 Aug 08
Would New Labour Sleaze and Corruption dare to choose another Prime Minister without reference to the electorate????

They are so selfish and greedy that they most likely would.

But unless they impose Marshall Law (not the alleged fraudster!) then they'll have to go to the polls.

Oblivion awaits!!!
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie, Orkney on 11:51pm Sat 2 Aug 08
From the Mail on Sunday,

Tony Blair has delivered a savage attack on Gordon Brown in a secret memo accusing him of playing into David Cameron’s hands by his ‘lamentable’ and ‘vacuous’ performance as Prime Minister.

The knives are well and truly oot.

Time for all us Nats to start the campaign, I think!
Posted by: David Saltire, Scotland on 11:53pm Sat 2 Aug 08
It is sad that the mean spirited Labour Party abandon Scotland for their own petty political ends. The SNP by definition put Scotland first. No complaints about that!
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 12:14am Sun 3 Aug 08
Seems New Labour Sleaze are paying for TV programmes to show their policies in a good light. More sleaze and corruption from New Labour Sleaze and Corruption!!

Is there no end to the dirty tricks???

From the Telegraph

Inquiry into television shows funded by ministers
Posted by: tris, scotland on 12:28am Sun 3 Aug 08
".......said one minister, who added: "Calculations will have been made: what do I owe Gordon, what do I owe the party, what do I owe to my family and myself?......"

Why do we never hear anything about what these people owe to the voters who put them there. It's all them, the party, and Gordon.

Who pays you, you stupid prats? Us!

Maybe if you thought a bit more about us, you wouldn't be looking at finding new jobs in 20 months.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:33am Sun 3 Aug 08
Heard on The EBC - Scotland branch, the other day ; "Alex Salmond is a bully, and has a flawed character !" And the author of this rant ? Why its none other than Brian - multi-millionaire, firey "socialist", Iraq Warmonger, Nuclear power pimp - Wilson
Hahhahhahahahhahahha

hahhahhahahhahahha
Methinks the ratbast*rds have truely lost the plot !
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:41am Sun 3 Aug 08
Jimmy the Pie
From the Telegraph - Inquiry into television shows funded by ministers
Oh no!

Which one?

Deal or No Deal?
The Weakest Link?
Big Brother?
The Scottish News?
Miss Scotland? (Live in England.)
Labour Best Party To Rule Scotland? (Repeated twice on Sundays)





Posted by: tally on 1:03am Sun 3 Aug 08
unless there is an English dimension to Westminster politics it matters not who is PM and that includes Cameron.
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 1:10am Sun 3 Aug 08

It looks like the 6 week labour contest
for leadership of the Holyrood Labour MSPs -
is going to be increasingly entertaining -
I smell a schism and an implosion on the way.

"Last night a senior member of the Kerr team launched an intemperate attack on Jamieson, dismissing her as a left-wing “cave woman” who would drag the party"

"I have known Cathy too long to nominate her. I just don’t think she’s up to the job. She’s not bright enough. She’s an old trot."

"MSP Karen Gillon, said “wee Cathy” had been a grave let-down as justice minister."

see - tinyurl.com/5ml244

"Andy Kerr's bid to become the next leader of the Scottish Labour party has been damaged by the disclosure that he referred to the post as “the worst job in Scotland”."

see - tinyurl.com/5flcbq
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 6:19am Sun 3 Aug 08
R. Souls
Posted by: redrose, Aberdeen on 7:41am Sun 3 Aug 08
Los Angeles wrote:
Jimmy the Pie
From the Telegraph - Inquiry into television shows funded by ministers
Oh no! Which one? Deal or No Deal? The Weakest Link? Big Brother? The Scottish News? Miss Scotland? (Live in England.) Labour Best Party To Rule Scotland? (Repeated twice on Sundays)
Jimmy you forgot the 1966 world Cup!
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 8:50am Sun 3 Aug 08
Dear God! Not the 1966 World Cup!
Why did you mention it redrose?
They put it on again on BBC 4 using a programme about the 60s as an excuse.
Ending with something along the lines of ," but most people will remember 1966 for that world cup triumph"
Argh!
Posted by: wullie on 8:51am Sun 3 Aug 08
What soul.

Fuel poverty in an energy rich country as Gordon Brown conspires with the energy companies to allow them to charge huge prices so that he ( gordon Brown) can garner additional corporation tax, VAT, and a future windfall tax scheduled for next year.

Yes many will go cold this winter as they struggle to pay their bills tp fill ordon Brown's war chest.

Soul, what soul?
Posted by: Francis on 9:34am Sun 3 Aug 08
Shouldn't we be more interested in the battle for Scotland's soul, 35% increase in gas and the Government who are supposed to represent us the people, acquiesce with a whimper. NATIONALISE THE UTILITIES BY COMPULSORY ORDER.
Posted by: Pretend socialism, greenock on 9:51am Sun 3 Aug 08
I joined the East End Labour Party branch of the Labour Party in Greenock.

It was one of the most sickening experiences of my life. I lasted around a year and then gave up membership and have never voted for them since.

The "leaders" of this east end branch came from places like KILMALCOLM. I could weep thinking about it.

That branch is now extinct.

Many of our local councilors like council houses that much that they bought one - and denied other people the chance of good housing that they got. Ask Duncan MacNeil if he bought his council house. Email him. Ask him where he now lives. Village land? Ask him!

As for Mr. Cairns does he pump the John Lewiss list amongst "other" things? Lots of freebies David? WHEN did you last have a wee look at Broomhill in Greenock?
Posted by: Francis on 10:09am Sun 3 Aug 08
Democracy and people to lazy to vote, or spoil their ballot paper, at least they would have used it as a protest.


The result gave Labour a Parliamentary majority of 66. It also produced some interesting statistics:

Labour's percentage of votes - at 36% (down by 5% from 2001) - is the lowest any winning party has ever achieved.


More people voted for the Conservatives in England than for Labour - but the Conservatives won 92 seats less than Labour within England (285 to 193). The Conservatives received 60,000 more votes than Labour in England.


There was an overall turnout of 61% - up 2% from 2001. But this still means that 1/3rd of those registered to vote did not do so. More people opted not to vote (38.7%) than voted for Labour (36%).


Labour's share of the total possible electorate was 22%.



Labour got 55% of the seats but 36% of the votes cast

The Conservatives got 30% of the seats but 33% of the votes cast

The Liberal Democrats got 10% of the seats but 22% of the votes cast.

Both the Electoral Reform Society and 'Make Votes Count' expressed their concern that democracy within the UK was being severely diluted by the continued use of the 'first-past-the-post

' system.
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 10:12am Sun 3 Aug 08
To late mates, it's already own. They sold it too the Prancing Prat and the CBI holds the contract!
Posted by: DougtheDug on 10:31am Sun 3 Aug 08
Traquir, Alba on 1:10am today
It looks like the 6 week labour contest for leadership of the Holyrood Labour MSPs - is going to be increasingly entertaining - I smell a schism and an implosion on the way.
With Tom McCabe's call for the creation of a regional Scottish Leader in Labour it looks like it's going to be at least a four way fight. Three MSP contenders and the MP's versus each other with interference from others like McCabe and with the London Labour leadership also pitching in.

Ten years ago Labour tearing itself apart in Scotland would have meant nothing because they won the elections automatically whether or not they had internal wars. When you're in a one party state your main opposition and threat to your advancement in government is always a member of your own party and the infighting becomes bitter. Labour still has the mindset associated with a one party state but the rules have changed and tearing your own party apart when it's in opposition is not a good idea.

I'm going to keep tea and biscuits handy so I can relax and enjoy the fun over the next few weeks.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 10:56am Sun 3 Aug 08
Francis wrote:
Democracy and people to lazy to vote, or spoil their ballot paper, at least they would have used it as a protest. The result gave Labour a Parliamentary majority of 66. It also produced some interesting statistics: Labour's percentage of votes - at 36% (down by 5% from 2001) - is the lowest any winning party has ever achieved. More people voted for the Conservatives in England than for Labour - but the Conservatives won 92 seats less than Labour within England (285 to 193). The Conservatives received 60,000 more votes than Labour in England. There was an overall turnout of 61% - up 2% from 2001. But this still means that 1/3rd of those registered to vote did not do so. More people opted not to vote (38.7%) than voted for Labour (36%). Labour's share of the total possible electorate was 22%. Labour got 55% of the seats but 36% of the votes cast The Conservatives got 30% of the seats but 33% of the votes cast The Liberal Democrats got 10% of the seats but 22% of the votes cast. Both the Electoral Reform Society and 'Make Votes Count' expressed their concern that democracy within the UK was being severely diluted by the continued use of the 'first-past-the-post ' system.

Quite sickening figures.

It really makes you wonder why the UK thinks that it has the right to comment on elections in Africa, and to send observers to judge whther they were free and fair.

If you add the figures here to the recent reports of fiddling and administrative incompetence over postal ballots it does make you wonder if perhaps someone from Nigeria or Cote d'Ivoire shouldn't be across here looking at the validity of British elections.
Posted by: Rab The Ranter, Ayrshire on 11:26am Sun 3 Aug 08
Traquir wrote:
There is only one thing stopping Scotland getting her independence and it is not England, nor is it Westminster, but rather the Labour Party. The have ruled Scotland incompetently and corruptly for decades resulting in embarrassing levels of poverty and under performance where Scotland has been treated like their personal fiefdom and second class nation where her resources are pillaged at will. Labour deserves to be destroyed and then Scotland and England will both be free to follow their unique aspirations in the world. In Scotland Labour have already lost half of their councillors, the Scottish Government, control of most of their councils and their membership is facing extinction. Another decade of England based Tory rule is upon us, and Labour at most will just re-enact their \"feeble-fifty\" performance under Thatcher. The \"quality\" of their people is now only too plain to see - they are basically in the main talentless nobodies who have only got to their positions via their parties corrupt network, and once their they have buried their snouts in the troughs to feather their own nests. Let\'s help to put the last few nails in the coffin of Labour and everybody will benefit from their passing. Saor Alba
I have to disagree with you Traquir, it is NOT The Labour Party who are
stopping Scotland getting her independence


It is the Scottish people to blame,that responsibility lies directly at our feet, it is us to blame and no one else.

We have to stand as a grown up people and accept the blame.

"To long have we blamed the foreign oppressor,
To long have we hoped for our hero's return,
We've raised all or banners in poems and in legends,
Rested on laurels that turned into stone"

Hasta La Victoria Siempre!
Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 11:44am Sun 3 Aug 08
Alex Porter, El Presidente Salmond actually plans to run an 'independent' Scotland from Brussels.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:49am Sun 3 Aug 08
i think it is quite obvious gray is going to be the next leader, might go put a flutter on actually. Considering the blistering attacks on wee cathy it is quite clear that labour have no intenion of listening to the scottish voters who would (IMHO) rather see the party return to a more left leaning stance. Andy Kerr has shot himself in the foot by declaring the role should be beefed up (oh and saying it is the worst job in scotland probably wasn't a wise move, i mean why go for the job if it is that bad??) Wee Iain will be another westminster controlled puppet and that is what they want. Hell slap it into them, hope they enjoy the next two years as i think they will be out somewhere in the political wilderness for a while.
Posted by: Raymond Pidgley, Romford on 12:11pm Sun 3 Aug 08
It is long past the time when the Labour Party should be obliterated.
Tony Blair allowed Gordon Brown to take over, and now he is running him down,after buying four houses,one costing four million pounds of our money,and working with him for ten years.
How many of our troops have died in Afghanistan.
Due to Blair and Brown's bungling.
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 12:18pm Sun 3 Aug 08
It is really good to know that Tony Blair gets to see the destruction of New Labour before his very eyes and that there is nothing he can do about it. That brings a degree of satisfaction to all those who opposed the rise of neo-Thatcherism within the Labour party.
Posted by: Peter Thomson, SNP for me! on 12:29pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Eh! Barry, sorry - the majority English government in Westminster sold the UK's soul to Europe. DO the sums even if all the Scottish MP's had voted against Lisbon Labour's English majority would have seen them through.

Wee Eck just wishes to remove a useless layer of government between us and Brussels so we do not have fishing quotas shifted by the likes of Blair to get a deal with the Germans and as Western Europe's biggest oil producer with bigger reserves than Kuwait we would like to be properly represented at the EU rather than an after thought. Just think if we Scots leave the Union you can have a little Englander vote to get out of the EU!
Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 12:45pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Peter, Der Fuhrer wants to keep Scotland in the EU. Therefore, Scotland will have no control over its fishing grounds (yes, I know it is SNP policy to withdraw from the Common Fisheries Policy but that isn't a position you can take in negociations unless you are prepared to withdraw from the EU and play hardball with the others)

I would rather the whole of the United Kingdom comes out of the EU. At any rate, I believe that the retention of the Union, is the only way we can get out of the EU.
Posted by: girfut, thebigisland on 12:52pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Sometimes I just sits and thinks , and sometimes I just sits.
In one of the former moments, I idly wondered what would happen now that SNP has positioned itself as a centre-left party, with a flexibility to encompass a wide range of political diversity ,If the labour party in scotland attempted to re-position itself.
From many/ most of the posts here and other evidence labours "traditional" ground is already occupied. Jamieson reacts by trying to go further left, MacCabe by trying to climb aboard a very busy lifeboat, Andy Pandy and Gray-by-name by singing "Abide with me " all the louder.
What a delicious irony if some public spirited person/s registered
The Scottish Labour Party
Labour Scotland
Scottish Labour
etc., etc.,
and sued the hell out of any carpetbaggers trying to use these titles in any forthcoming election.
Some of you out there will know the detail, and whether this could be made to work Thoughts please.
Posted by: Grahamski, Falkirk on 12:57pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Acceptance of the CFP is a condition of EU membership. The SNP know this but still insist on peddling the lie that they will be able to 'opt out'. It is cynical opportunism and political cowardice at its most brazen.
They will be found out, they will be rejected.
Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 1:40pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Spot-on,Grahamski of Falkirk. Also, every new member of the EU has to accept what is called the 'acquis communataire' ie all of the accumulated EU laws and directives up to the point of the new member joining. A new member joining today thus has to incorporate about 100,000 plus laws and directives into its laws.


The CONServative Party also lies about the EU as all the Establishment parties do with its nonsense of 'in Europe but not run by Europe' - an oxymoron if ever there was one.


The reason many Post Offices are being closed down in Britain is due to Labour following an EU directive on the liberalisation of trade and services across the EU. See here for details:

www.bullen.demon.co.
uk
Posted by: Alex Porter on 2:06pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Barry,
"yes, I know it is SNP policy to withdraw from the Common Fisheries Policy but that isn't a position you can take in negociations unless you are prepared to withdraw from the EU and play hardball with the others"

You can. It's like the UK not being in the Euro-Zone, it is still in the EU. Anyway, the EU doesn't have a good negotiating position; the fish are in Scottish waters..
Posted by: Alex Porter, Troll Patrol on 2:21pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Grahamski, Falkirk on 12:57pm today
Acceptance of the CFP is a condition of EU membership. The SNP know this but still insist on peddling the lie that they will be able to 'opt out'. It is cynical opportunism and political cowardice at its most brazen. They will be found out, they will be rejected.quote]

Electing your government using a form of proportional representation is a condition of EU membership yet the UK is still a member..

The EU needs Scotland. The threat to the CFP will result in renegotiations and a new CFP - end of story.

This really is clutching at straws.
Posted by: Alejandro Portero on 2:22pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Alex, mi estupido amigo. What do you think all those Spanish fishermen will say if they're forced out of Scottish waters?

The UK didn't sign up to the euro. It DID sign p to the CFP. Scotland is not part of the euro, it IS part of the CFP. Anyone who thinks an "independent" Scotland will be allowed to quit the CFP has been knocking back far too much sangria


Posted by: alejandro Portero on 2:24pm Sun 3 Aug 08
"The threat to the CFP will result in renegotiations and a new CFP "

So Eck speaks and Europe trembles

Si, derecha, as they might say in your barrio

Posted by: D. Javier Francisco Franco, El ferrol, Galicia on 3:27pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Alejandro, Mi Amigo estupido - hace falta que usted mejor su Español.
Aqui decimos 'Amigo estupido', no al reves como lo tiene vd.

'si, derecha' no significa nada, chaval - o igual usted habla de 'Derechos' ? - pero parece que usted quiere decir algo como 'Si, Correcto'

A ver si aprendemos Espanol si vamos a vivir en España, eh? En lugar de tanto puto Nationalismo Escoces de los cojones todo los santos dias, capullo.



Posted by: Lowperdowg, Fisterra on 6:00pm Sun 3 Aug 08
So Eck speaks and Europe trembles.


Alejandro speaks and Europe laughs.
Posted by: Barry, Brentwood on 6:20pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Alex, I would say the EU needs the whole of the United Kingdom. Only together is the UK a threat to their project of turning the whole Continent of Europe into a single 'United States of Europe'. If we pulled-out of the EU, I think it is likely that one of the other three major members ie Germany or France would do so. Certainly, Germany's people (as opposed to their mad political Establishment) have little reason to remain in the EU seeing as they contribute most of the money in the EU budget.
Posted by: wullie, govan on 7:28pm Sun 3 Aug 08
The Battle for Labours BLACK Soul
no thanks
Posted by: Al, Glasgow on 8:36pm Sun 3 Aug 08
It may have already been said but the un-named minister at the end says it all. What do i owe GB, what do I owe the party and finally what do I owe my family.

No mention of the country, the poor, the unions - Labour are dead ....
Posted by: Vronsky, Scotland on 8:45pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Acres of bad Spanish. Here's some good stuff:

Quisiera tener alas para volar,
cruzar por el espacio en libertad
En libertad, como los pajarillos
que nadie me pregunte: ¿a dónde vas?

That's from Inti Illimani. For your bedtime listening:

tinyurl.com/5g4j95
tinyurl.com/5mxzuf
Posted by: hammer hannaway, glasgow on 8:57pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Tony blew it - and beat it

Gordon blew it - and didn't have the sense to beat it

The NuLab project, whatever it was, is like the housing 'bubble'well and truly bust

To my regret in my eagerness to see the back of the ever more arrogant Tories I once voted Labour (only once)

Will GB's or TB's 'strategies' or 'tactics' make any difference now?

Nah! They blew it together - and SLab was right behind them both

In Scotland the choice will be simple - SNP or 'more of the same'

Possible gain and nothing to lose by rocking the boat
Posted by: Vronsky, Scotland on 8:58pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Oh,i'm feeling generous - have this too.

Es mi tierra

inyurl.com/5hv2le
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 9:05pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Grahamski - my favourite stalker psycho,

The reality will be that there will be a renegotiated CFP. We have the fish, they want the fish and that's the end of it whether you like it or not.

Javier is right, it's not "mi estupido amigo" -the adjective is after the noun. The answer is 'Si, correcto'. Scotland will not have to be bound by all EU agreements.

Not sure why you get so worked about these things. You should be relaxing and enjoying your new SNP government. And there's plenty more where that came from:O)
Posted by: Vronsky, Scotland on 9:11pm Sun 3 Aug 08
Oh, my apologies- I can't stop now. Why is Spanish such a good language for this sort of thing?

tinyurl.com/6nulkm
Posted by: ptdoug, Ystad on 9:31pm Sun 3 Aug 08
WHO WOULD YOU PREFER TO HAVE AS SCOTLANDS CLOSEST NEIGHBOURS, GEOGRAPHICLY SPEAKING?

Vote in the poll at;

www.cybernatcentral.

blogspot.com

Newborn CyberNat hangout... check it out.

it's a bit cut'n'paste as far as content is concerned, at the moment, as I have been concentrating on the layout.... but hopefully still interesting.

Vote in the Poll...(please) :-0
Posted by: daisy on 11:00am Mon 4 Aug 08
oh, she is so hot. I found another photo of her on an inter-racial dating site~~~~~" mixedmate.com ". One of her close friends is on that site for dating
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