Russia’s state hackers target Radio Free Europe in Prague ‘Tsunami’ of attacks interrupts station’s broadcastsFrom Gabriel Ronay
In Budapest RUSSIA'S STATE-LICENSED hacker forces have opened a new front in the east-west cyber war with an unprecedented mass cyber-attack on Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, the American-financed radio station broadcasting from Prague to Eastern Europe and the Middle East.
The attack began last weekend with a "tsunami" of bogus connection requests, which blocked some of the radio station's internet websites and caused many others to crash. In turn, this frontal cyber-attack also affected the radio's broadcast services to some 20 countries in the region. When RFE took electronic counter-measures the cyber-attacks intensified.
Significantly, Prague sources point out, RFE/RL's broadcasts to Belorussia, Russia, Iran, Bosnia and Kosovo were the target services quickly rendered inaccessible. A further tranche of disabled services include Azerbaijan and Tadjikistan, which have friendly links with the West but, in the eyes of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's policy-makers, belong to Russia's sphere of influence.
Cyber-assaults and hacker raids are virtual arms, but, in effect, they are real offensive weapons. Cyber-attacks can harm or even paralyse a country and are therefore the equivalents of physical military attacks. Nato's defensive treaty, drawn up in 1949, does not deal with this new-fangled weapon as there was no internet and very few computers at the time.
During the cold war there had been many Soviet attempts to jam the signals of RFE/RL, funded by Washington "to promote democratic values and institutions by disseminating factual information and ideas" in the communist empire. The present cyber attack on it is merely a continuation of this old cold war by more up-to-date means. How this virtual reality cyber-weapon was being used by the Russian hackers in last week's attack on the radio
station is of considerable interest. At the height of the attack RFE/RL's websites received up to 50,000 fake requests for information, "hits" in cyber-language, every second. Cyberspace experts call this "denial-of-service attack" or DOS. According to Luke Springer, RFE/RL's head of technology, the attack initially targeted the radio station's Belorussian service, perhaps because of the radio's marking of the anniversary of the 1987 Chernobyl nuclear disaster in Belorussia. However, the attack quickly spread to other news sites.
"Within hours eight websites -
Russian, Belorussian, Iranian, Kosovar, Serbo-Croat, Tartar-Bashkir and Tadjik - were knocked out or made unavailable," he said. "The way this is usually done is by flooding the target website with fake requests to communicate, thereby using up the website's resources and rendering it useless to all legitimate users."
Simple really. Only in this case the hackers targeted, with the use of a massive network of interconnected computers, a great number of RFE/RL computers and then, in a co-ordinated move, simultaneously attacked all the websites. The broadcaster's operating computers crashed.
The Russian cyber-warriors' actions reveal the extraordinary vulnerability of institutions and even states to hacker penetration by a hostile power. Last week's massed hacker attack appears to define the stratagem of the cyber cold war. Its reach is surprising.
Well outside the rationale of the latest Russo-American cyber-swordfight, Russian hackers recently launched an attack on the website of Cheltenham town hall in the genteel Gloucestershire spa town.
This inexplicable attack seemed to indicate that Russia's secret hackers are intent on a worldwide demonstration of their cyber-prowess.
Last year, the Kremlin's cyber warriors debilitated Estonia's entire banking and state computer system following Moscow's angry protests over the former Soviet republic's decision to remove the Soviet war memorial from the centre of Tallinn.
According to Reporters Sans Frontiéres, an independent organisation fighting for media freedom, the hackers who had attacked Estonia used the very same "distributed denial-of-service" type of hacker penetration as the one that debilitated RFE/RL last week.
The Russian hacker attack on Estonia rang alarm bellsin the capitals of former Soviet satellite states. Earlier this spring alien hackers briefly "occupied" the website of the High Court of Cassation in Bucharest.
Other Romanian public service websites, including that of the Romanian Railways, have also come under hacker attack.
Meanwhile, China's hackers are more than able to match Russia's capability to penetrate foreign computer networks, manipulate digital information and disrupt communications. Chinese cyber-spies have hacked into the
computers of a number of leading
British companies, including Rolls-Royce, and into the government computer networks of the US, France, Germany, South Korea and Taiwan.
Virtual reality raids appear to be the weapon of choice in the East-West cyber cold war.
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Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 2:32am Sun 11 May 08
It would be interesting to know how the West retiates, either either with countermeasures or with direct attacks on these countries. Would the end game be that it wasn't worthwhile doing it, as no one could gain any benefit?
It would be interesting to know how the West retiates, either either with countermeasures or with direct attacks on these countries. Would the end game be that it wasn't worthwhile doing it, as no one could gain any benefit?
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 2:33am Sun 11 May 08
retiates = retaliates
Posted by: sirivanhoe98 on 3:13am Sun 11 May 08
The article offers no evidence to prove how it knows it was Russian hackers who orchestrated the denial of service attack on the RFE internet website.
The article also atributes the attack on the Estonian government website to Russia, ignorant of the fact that the attack came from a single computer in Amsterdam. Through a single computer around 2 million computers were controlled world-wide from where the attacks took place. Subsequent investigations did not attribute the attack on Russia.
Hackers gain controls of other people's computers using phishing techniques. They also pay other hackers $10-$20 and more to gain control of a computer. They keep it safe and clean of viruses for future use such as the attack on Estonia.
Anyone could do the attack including CIA and then attribute the attack on Russia. Simply to make the Russians look bad.
The article offers no evidence to prove how it knows it was Russian hackers who orchestrated the denial of service attack on the RFE internet website.
The article also atributes the attack on the Estonian government website to Russia, ignorant of the fact that the attack came from a single computer in Amsterdam. Through a single computer around 2 million computers were controlled world-wide from where the attacks took place. Subsequent investigations did not attribute the attack on Russia.
Hackers gain controls of other people's computers using phishing techniques. They also pay other hackers $10-$20 and more to gain control of a computer. They keep it safe and clean of viruses for future use such as the attack on Estonia.
Anyone could do the attack including CIA and then attribute the attack on Russia. Simply to make the Russians look bad.
Posted by: Richard Cheeseman, Wellington, NZ on 6:36am Sun 11 May 08
Pure hate-mongering propaganda, using the technique of repeated assertion without evidence to justify its claims.
This is bad journalism, not just biassed but also incompetent and stupid.
Pure hate-mongering propaganda, using the technique of repeated assertion without evidence to justify its claims.
This is bad journalism, not just biassed but also incompetent and stupid.
Posted by: Richard Cheeseman, Wellington, NZ on 6:41am Sun 11 May 08
Incidentally, Reporters Sans Frontieres is a right-wing front organisation, in no sense "independent" as asserted in this propaganda piece. RSF is funded by the CIA, including through the NED slush fund, and by the EU political apparatus.
Incidentally, Reporters Sans Frontieres is a right-wing front organisation, in no sense "independent" as asserted in this propaganda piece. RSF is funded by the CIA, including through the NED slush fund, and by the EU political apparatus.
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 9:25am Sun 11 May 08
Where are the valiant commandos of the 101st Laptop Brigade when the the West is in such peril.
[quote]Anyone could do the attack including CIA and then attribute the attack on Russia. Simply to make the Russians look bad.[/quote]
Agreed sirivanhoe, misdirection in the nebulous world of the web is so much easier and much more dificult to trace and pin down.
Where are the valiant commandos of the 101st Laptop Brigade when the the West is in such peril.
Anyone could do the attack including CIA and then attribute the attack on Russia. Simply to make the Russians look bad.
Agreed sirivanhoe, misdirection in the nebulous world of the web is so much easier and much more dificult to trace and pin down.
Posted by: Barbudo, London on 11:42am Sun 11 May 08
I agree wholeheartedly with commentators such as Richard Cheeseman of Wellington, NZ, who remind us that we should seek evidence before jumping to conclusions.
I'd go further, though. The article implies that Western (usually US) propaganda broadcasting is somehow always "good" and that any efforts to counter it are always "bad".
Let's be clear: Radio Free Europe and other US propaganda efforts, by the government and its private sector supporters, are a form of warfare, aimed at sowing discontent, miunderstanding and apathy, with the ultimate goal of toppling regimes that are unsympathetic to Western (particularly US) interests.
Hence US taxpayer-funded Radio Marti broadcasts daily into Cuba, whose biggest crime is to stand as an (imperfect) example of an alternative mode of government in terms of healthcare, education, housing, ecologically-sustain
able agriculture etc.
Right now, Evo Morales' mildly redistributive government in Bolivia is subject to a US State Department campaign - dutifully recycled by CNN, Reuters and all the rest of the cut-and-paste merchants - to convey the impression that a small minority of self-interested rich folk in Santa Cruz and other resource-rich provinces are somehow equivalent in numbers to the majority of impoverished Bolivians who support Morales' efforts to wrest back control of the economy from multinational corporations (US and European) and establish a South American alternative trading bloc to counter the "Washington consensus".
The April 2002 coup attempt against Hugo Chavez in Venezuela is perhaps the most graphic and dramatic illustration of how "the media" can be used to create "an alternative reality" that facilitates and excuses anti-democratic machinations by the rich and powerful.
The Irish documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" is highly recommended because it lays bare how the April 2002 plotters nearly got away with it, despite the supposedly "independent" scrutiny of the BBC, Sky, CBS etc.
Let's stay alert, folks!
I agree wholeheartedly with commentators such as Richard Cheeseman of Wellington, NZ, who remind us that we should seek evidence before jumping to conclusions.
I'd go further, though. The article implies that Western (usually US) propaganda broadcasting is somehow always "good" and that any efforts to counter it are always "bad".
Let's be clear: Radio Free Europe and other US propaganda efforts, by the government and its private sector supporters, are a form of warfare, aimed at sowing discontent, miunderstanding and apathy, with the ultimate goal of toppling regimes that are unsympathetic to Western (particularly US) interests.
Hence US taxpayer-funded Radio Marti broadcasts daily into Cuba, whose biggest crime is to stand as an (imperfect) example of an alternative mode of government in terms of healthcare, education, housing, ecologically-sustain
able agriculture etc.
Right now, Evo Morales' mildly redistributive government in Bolivia is subject to a US State Department campaign - dutifully recycled by CNN, Reuters and all the rest of the cut-and-paste merchants - to convey the impression that a small minority of self-interested rich folk in Santa Cruz and other resource-rich provinces are somehow equivalent in numbers to the majority of impoverished Bolivians who support Morales' efforts to wrest back control of the economy from multinational corporations (US and European) and establish a South American alternative trading bloc to counter the "Washington consensus".
The April 2002 coup attempt against Hugo Chavez in Venezuela is perhaps the most graphic and dramatic illustration of how "the media" can be used to create "an alternative reality" that facilitates and excuses anti-democratic machinations by the rich and powerful.
The Irish documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" is highly recommended because it lays bare how the April 2002 plotters nearly got away with it, despite the supposedly "independent" scrutiny of the BBC, Sky, CBS etc.
Let's stay alert, folks!
Posted by: Thinker, USA on 12:56pm Sun 11 May 08
Well, we're all suspicious of the CIA and RFE. Not to say that either entity is incapable of wrongdoing or misinformation. But there are no angels on the other face of the coin. Has anyone kept up on the mysterious fates of opponents of the Putin regime? Does anyone remember that it was Russia from whom the term "Propaganda" came? Barbudo, you are an ill-informed idiot if you do not know about the thousands of Cubans murdered by the Castro regime, the thousands forcibly dispossessed of their lawful property, and the enforced poverty that still plagues that nation thanks to their "alternative mode of Government," under which I wish you had the displeasure to live. Hugo Chavez is a military thug like Castro, who was opposed by hundreds of thousands of his countrymen and is rapidly taking political power and possessions away from the people of Venezuela. If 101 years of Communism has not taught you to equate it with tyranny, poverty, militaristic imperialism and oligarchy, then history will teach you nothing.
Well, we're all suspicious of the CIA and RFE. Not to say that either entity is incapable of wrongdoing or misinformation. But there are no angels on the other face of the coin. Has anyone kept up on the mysterious fates of opponents of the Putin regime? Does anyone remember that it was Russia from whom the term "Propaganda" came? Barbudo, you are an ill-informed idiot if you do not know about the thousands of Cubans murdered by the Castro regime, the thousands forcibly dispossessed of their lawful property, and the enforced poverty that still plagues that nation thanks to their "alternative mode of Government," under which I wish you had the displeasure to live. Hugo Chavez is a military thug like Castro, who was opposed by hundreds of thousands of his countrymen and is rapidly taking political power and possessions away from the people of Venezuela. If 101 years of Communism has not taught you to equate it with tyranny, poverty, militaristic imperialism and oligarchy, then history will teach you nothing.
Posted by: Barbudo, London on 2:47pm Sun 11 May 08
Thinker USA -
Of course Putin has an authoritarian side, and I'm glad that we agree about the CIA (albeit they are only doing the bidding of their political masters).
As for the origin of the word "propaganda", a quick search indicates that it originated in the Roman Catholic church during the Middle Ages:-
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Propaganda
The point is that the USA has no moral right to interfere in other countries' affairs, in ways that it would never tolerate if foreigners tried to buy influence in US politics (apart from the usual backdoor route, namely corporate takeover of the commanding heights of the US economy by sovereign funds from the Far East).
Most of the bloodletting in Cuba to which you refer took place immediately after the Revolution, and with popular support. Ex-CIA agent Philip Agee (who died earlier this year) noted how many of the Batista henchmen and lackeys who died in those purges were CIA operatives. At least 20,000 Cuban civilians died at the hands of Batista's thugs between 1952-58, plus, of course, countless thousands of others, throughout the four centuries of Spanish then US misrule, who died prematurely because they didn't have access to free healthcare etc.
No doubt you'll mention the thousands who've drowned in the straits of Miami trying to escape Cuba. But most are fleeing for economic, not political reasons. The US economic embargo, against all reason or commonsense, plays a big role, as does the USA's preferential treatment of Cuban refugees ("Wet Foot, Dry Foot") compared to those Latinos escaping economic weakness in capitalist countries such as Mexico, Haiti, El Salvador etc.
My friend: there are worse places to live than Cuba, and the USA supports most, eg Saudi Arabia.
Chavez a "military thug"? So why did he accept his defeat in last December's referendum? The opposition were so surprised to win, they had to quietly bin t-shirts saying "We was robbed" (or words to that effect).
He is opposed by hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans..... but supported by many more. That's why he's been re-elected time after time.
He isn't a communist either - as the profusion of Western style advertising in Caracas and the spiralling consumption of luxury goods should make clear.
My advice is for you to be more critical and questioning of what CNN, Fox, the BBC and all the rest tell you about Venezuela, Cuba and all the rest.
Thinker USA -
Of course Putin has an authoritarian side, and I'm glad that we agree about the CIA (albeit they are only doing the bidding of their political masters).
As for the origin of the word "propaganda", a quick search indicates that it originated in the Roman Catholic church during the Middle Ages:-
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Propaganda
The point is that the USA has no moral right to interfere in other countries' affairs, in ways that it would never tolerate if foreigners tried to buy influence in US politics (apart from the usual backdoor route, namely corporate takeover of the commanding heights of the US economy by sovereign funds from the Far East).
Most of the bloodletting in Cuba to which you refer took place immediately after the Revolution, and with popular support. Ex-CIA agent Philip Agee (who died earlier this year) noted how many of the Batista henchmen and lackeys who died in those purges were CIA operatives. At least 20,000 Cuban civilians died at the hands of Batista's thugs between 1952-58, plus, of course, countless thousands of others, throughout the four centuries of Spanish then US misrule, who died prematurely because they didn't have access to free healthcare etc.
No doubt you'll mention the thousands who've drowned in the straits of Miami trying to escape Cuba. But most are fleeing for economic, not political reasons. The US economic embargo, against all reason or commonsense, plays a big role, as does the USA's preferential treatment of Cuban refugees ("Wet Foot, Dry Foot") compared to those Latinos escaping economic weakness in capitalist countries such as Mexico, Haiti, El Salvador etc.
My friend: there are worse places to live than Cuba, and the USA supports most, eg Saudi Arabia.
Chavez a "military thug"? So why did he accept his defeat in last December's referendum? The opposition were so surprised to win, they had to quietly bin t-shirts saying "We was robbed" (or words to that effect).
He is opposed by hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans..... but supported by many more. That's why he's been re-elected time after time.
He isn't a communist either - as the profusion of Western style advertising in Caracas and the spiralling consumption of luxury goods should make clear.
My advice is for you to be more critical and questioning of what CNN, Fox, the BBC and all the rest tell you about Venezuela, Cuba and all the rest.
Posted by: yahn goodey on 2:55pm Sun 11 May 08
there has got to be a way of defending against such attacks.
i refuse to believe that a program cannot be made up that automatically denies access and there after ignores forever another users computor that is trying to overload or download or withdraw info in your computor without your permission.
for the time being i had to stop visiting 1 website because another individual took a hate on for me and hacked their computor so the moment i logged on there this computors memory was filled to capacity with unsolicited garbage.2 or 3 times of cleaning out the memory of this computor and i gave up on revisiting that site------whose got the time to waste repairing the damage dome by vandals that should be doing jail time?
there has got to be a way of defending against such attacks.
i refuse to believe that a program cannot be made up that automatically denies access and there after ignores forever another users computor that is trying to overload or download or withdraw info in your computor without your permission.
for the time being i had to stop visiting 1 website because another individual took a hate on for me and hacked their computor so the moment i logged on there this computors memory was filled to capacity with unsolicited garbage.2 or 3 times of cleaning out the memory of this computor and i gave up on revisiting that site------whose got the time to waste repairing the damage dome by vandals that should be doing jail time?
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 3:31pm Sun 11 May 08
[quote][bold]yahn goodey[/bold] wrote:
there has got to be a way of defending against such attacks. i refuse to believe that a program cannot be made up that automatically denies access and there after ignores forever another users computor that is trying to overload or download or withdraw info in your computor without your permission. for the time being i had to stop visiting 1 website because another individual took a hate on for me and hacked their computor so the moment i logged on there this computors memory was filled to capacity with unsolicited garbage.2 or 3 times of cleaning out the memory of this computor and i gave up on revisiting that site------whose got the time to waste repairing the damage dome by vandals that should be doing jail time? [/quote] A good, ideally professional firewal, anti-virus and set up your computer properly. It'll never be 100%, nothing can but most people have problems because they don't understand how and why their computer works. I also rcommend web browsers other than IE. Same with mail client. There are plenty of good options out there. Also check mail, if POP3 with a program like mailwasher before downloading. But the real secret is to set operating system and all programs up properly, whether you use Windows, Linux or MacOS.
Scan for virus and spyware regularly and use a program like CrapCleaner on a regular basis to clean up your computer.
yahn goodey wrote:
there has got to be a way of defending against such attacks. i refuse to believe that a program cannot be made up that automatically denies access and there after ignores forever another users computor that is trying to overload or download or withdraw info in your computor without your permission. for the time being i had to stop visiting 1 website because another individual took a hate on for me and hacked their computor so the moment i logged on there this computors memory was filled to capacity with unsolicited garbage.2 or 3 times of cleaning out the memory of this computor and i gave up on revisiting that site------whose got the time to waste repairing the damage dome by vandals that should be doing jail time?
A good, ideally professional firewal, anti-virus and set up your computer properly. It'll never be 100%, nothing can but most people have problems because they don't understand how and why their computer works. I also rcommend web browsers other than IE. Same with mail client. There are plenty of good options out there. Also check mail, if POP3 with a program like mailwasher before downloading. But the real secret is to set operating system and all programs up properly, whether you use Windows, Linux or MacOS.
Scan for virus and spyware regularly and use a program like CrapCleaner on a regular basis to clean up your computer.
Posted by: Jim, Irvine on 5:02pm Sun 11 May 08
Thinker USA--get real about Comrade Chavez.He is a nice man who tries his best to help the
poor. Recently he has been helping the poor of
London by providing cheaper fuel contracts than
was provided by the western fuel barons.
He signed an oil agreement with the then Mayor of London Ken Livingstone.
Perhaps other UK cities should follow suit.Then
we might see a reduction in fuel costs.
Thinker USA--get real about Comrade Chavez.He is a nice man who tries his best to help the
poor. Recently he has been helping the poor of
London by providing cheaper fuel contracts than
was provided by the western fuel barons.
He signed an oil agreement with the then Mayor of London Ken Livingstone.
Perhaps other UK cities should follow suit.Then
we might see a reduction in fuel costs.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 8:17pm Sun 11 May 08
[quote][bold]Thinker[/bold] wrote:
Well, we\'re all suspicious of the CIA and RFE. Not to say that either entity is incapable of wrongdoing or misinformation. But there are no angels on the other face of the coin. Has anyone kept up on the mysterious fates of opponents of the Putin regime? Does anyone remember that it was Russia from whom the term \"Propaganda\" came? Barbudo, you are an ill-informed idiot if you do not know about the thousands of Cubans murdered by the Castro regime, the thousands forcibly dispossessed of their lawful property, and the enforced poverty that still plagues that nation thanks to their \"alternative mode of Government,\" under which I wish you had the displeasure to live. Hugo Chavez is a military thug like Castro, who was opposed by hundreds of thousands of his countrymen and is rapidly taking political power and possessions away from the people of Venezuela. If 101 years of Communism has not taught you to equate it with tyranny, poverty, militaristic imperialism and oligarchy, then history will teach you nothing.[/quote] [quote] If 101 years of Communism has not taught you to equate it with tyranny, poverty, militaristic imperialism and oligarchy, then history will teach you nothing.[/quote]
No it hasn't, it's taught me to equate it with American imperialism and their flavour of democracy. Like good old Pinochet and all the other south and central american dictators propped up by the U.S. Yes you can include Saddam Hussein in with them if you like.
What an erse you are!
Thinker wrote:
Well, we\'re all suspicious of the CIA and RFE. Not to say that either entity is incapable of wrongdoing or misinformation. But there are no angels on the other face of the coin. Has anyone kept up on the mysterious fates of opponents of the Putin regime? Does anyone remember that it was Russia from whom the term \"Propaganda\" came? Barbudo, you are an ill-informed idiot if you do not know about the thousands of Cubans murdered by the Castro regime, the thousands forcibly dispossessed of their lawful property, and the enforced poverty that still plagues that nation thanks to their \"alternative mode of Government,\" under which I wish you had the displeasure to live. Hugo Chavez is a military thug like Castro, who was opposed by hundreds of thousands of his countrymen and is rapidly taking political power and possessions away from the people of Venezuela. If 101 years of Communism has not taught you to equate it with tyranny, poverty, militaristic imperialism and oligarchy, then history will teach you nothing.
If 101 years of Communism has not taught you to equate it with tyranny, poverty, militaristic imperialism and oligarchy, then history will teach you nothing.
No it hasn't, it's taught me to equate it with American imperialism and their flavour of democracy. Like good old Pinochet and all the other south and central american dictators propped up by the U.S. Yes you can include Saddam Hussein in with them if you like.
What an erse you are!
Posted by: variant, Glasgow on 10:23pm Sun 11 May 08
"...cyber-spies have hacked into the computers of a number of leading British companies, including Rolls-Royce..."
Would that be 'Rolls-Royce plc', the "Number two military aero engine manufacturer in the world" : "Our engines power aircraft in all of the major military aviation market sectors, from military transport aircraft and helicopters, to trainers and combat aircraft."
Or perhaps 'Rolls-Royce Marine Power Operations Ltd' (a subsidiary company) that 'manufactures and tests nuclear reactors for Royal Naval submarines...'
"...cyber-spies have hacked into the computers of a number of leading British companies, including Rolls-Royce..."
Would that be 'Rolls-Royce plc', the "Number two military aero engine manufacturer in the world" : "Our engines power aircraft in all of the major military aviation market sectors, from military transport aircraft and helicopters, to trainers and combat aircraft."
Or perhaps 'Rolls-Royce Marine Power Operations Ltd' (a subsidiary company) that 'manufactures and tests nuclear reactors for Royal Naval submarines...'
Posted by: scott fox, atlanta, ga on 3:26pm Mon 12 May 08
This article is very poorly sourced, and reads like typical fear mongering, pro-western propaganda.
How dare Russia resist western imperialist elites that want to enslave every human being on the planet!
This article is very poorly sourced, and reads like typical fear mongering, pro-western propaganda.
How dare Russia resist western imperialist elites that want to enslave every human being on the planet!
Posted by: Thinker, USA on 1:49am Tue 13 May 08
Barbudo, you're right about "propogand"...I didn't look it up beforehand. But the reason it is associated with Russia is because they developed a very detailed system and plan to disseminate disinformation, and it worked quite well, for instance, the cover-up with the aid of Western leftists of Stalin's mass starvation program in, I believe it was, the Ukraine. I won't bother pointing out that the imprisonment, murder, and servitude of the Cuban people is a present reality. The standard leftist response is to believe Castro's version of the truth and discount all else as axe-grinding by Cuban refugees.
I don't watch TV, I read. I find it amusing that you assume I watch Fox News, the standard diss to anyone who criticizes leftwing opinion. As if you all get your opinions through independent thinking but right-wingers must be brainwashed by Fox News...please! I read a variety of opinions, including the amazingly lopsided critical continuum of the leftist rags...No mercy to the West (especially America and Israel), and give the rest of the world a pass. The Western leftists are hyper-critical to their own governments but turn a blind eye to others. If the West is such a hell to live in, why do so many people immigrate to Western nations but we see little to none of the opposite? Why do the leftists not flee en masse to these workers' paradises? Really, I understand the USA isn't perfect and does and has done some things I don't agree with (what country hasn't?), but when I hear such lopsided BS like this it makes me want to be just as lopsided in defense.
Sam, help me out here. I live in the USA. I don't have to fear that the secret police will come in the middle of the night and arrest me for unfavorable political opinions and throw me in a sanitarium or a worker's prison. I don't have to wait in breadlines thanks to a failed planned economy that cannot properly balance production and consumption. I am free to pursue any reasonable purpose in life, including the opposition of my own government if I choose. My government has not starved and murdered millions of its own people into political conformity. If you equate life under communism with life under Western democracy, you deserve the "erse" award far more than I. Compare North Korea with South Korea, the former East and West Germany, etc. The difference is in starkest relief.
Barbudo, you're right about "propogand"...I didn't look it up beforehand. But the reason it is associated with Russia is because they developed a very detailed system and plan to disseminate disinformation, and it worked quite well, for instance, the cover-up with the aid of Western leftists of Stalin's mass starvation program in, I believe it was, the Ukraine. I won't bother pointing out that the imprisonment, murder, and servitude of the Cuban people is a present reality. The standard leftist response is to believe Castro's version of the truth and discount all else as axe-grinding by Cuban refugees.
I don't watch TV, I read. I find it amusing that you assume I watch Fox News, the standard diss to anyone who criticizes leftwing opinion. As if you all get your opinions through independent thinking but right-wingers must be brainwashed by Fox News...please! I read a variety of opinions, including the amazingly lopsided critical continuum of the leftist rags...No mercy to the West (especially America and Israel), and give the rest of the world a pass. The Western leftists are hyper-critical to their own governments but turn a blind eye to others. If the West is such a hell to live in, why do so many people immigrate to Western nations but we see little to none of the opposite? Why do the leftists not flee en masse to these workers' paradises? Really, I understand the USA isn't perfect and does and has done some things I don't agree with (what country hasn't?), but when I hear such lopsided BS like this it makes me want to be just as lopsided in defense.
Sam, help me out here. I live in the USA. I don't have to fear that the secret police will come in the middle of the night and arrest me for unfavorable political opinions and throw me in a sanitarium or a worker's prison. I don't have to wait in breadlines thanks to a failed planned economy that cannot properly balance production and consumption. I am free to pursue any reasonable purpose in life, including the opposition of my own government if I choose. My government has not starved and murdered millions of its own people into political conformity. If you equate life under communism with life under Western democracy, you deserve the "erse" award far more than I. Compare North Korea with South Korea, the former East and West Germany, etc. The difference is in starkest relief.
Posted by: Barbudo, London on 9:33pm Tue 13 May 08
Thinker, USA -
Firstly, it was someone else who referred to you as an "e*se". Personal abuse ain't my style!
With all due respect, propaganda isn't a Russian monopoly, just because the USSR, under Stalin, successfully covered up the Ukraine famine, the purges, the Katyn massacre etc.
Of course you are entirely correct to assert that the current regime in the Kremlin has spin-doctors too, merrily creating alternative realities of Russian grandeur while ignoring the demographic timebomb of a shrinking population. Cuba does it too, eg the "120 Club" of senior citizens, and the UK, and China.....
But a simple examination of the facts indicates that US propaganda is the most sophisticated, pervasive and powerful of all, particularly when it comes to enchanting its own citizenry. For example, a majority of Americans are firmly convinced that the USA is the world's most generous donor, per capita, of aid to foreign countries, despite plentiful data indicating that the Scandinavian countries, Japan and others are far ahead of mid-table USA.
US propaganda about the Saddam / 9-11 connection convinced sufficient numbers of US citizens (and senators) to bury their misgivings about Bush's pre-emptive strike against Iraq, with shocking consequences.
And how many Americans are aware (or accept) that the US / UK bombed Iraq with chemical weapons (plutonium shells) for years before 2003?
Even the supposedly "wicked" Cuban regime sends more doctors to Bolivia, Pakistan and other Third World states than the USA, Medicin Sans Frontieres and others combined, although you'd be hard-pushed to hear Humberto Fontova admit as much on primetime US TV.
Yes, I did mention Fox, but also CNN and the BBC. In my view, they're the tip of the iceberg and as bad as each other in terms of uncritically recycling PR, from government, corporations and other bodies with axes to grind. Real journalism is expensive and time-consuming.
If you're not a regular Fox viewer, I apologise unreservedly (it's a foul accusation!). But I suspect that many of your compatriots rely heavily on Fox, the fastest-growing US TV network, which even Ann Coulter admits is far from "fair and balanced".
As an aside - how many US radio "shock jocks" are lefties? Damned few, I'll bet!
BTW you shouldn't assume that all leftists are uncritical of all non-Western regimes. I personally have little time for the governments of Russia, China, Colombia, Italy, Australia and most of Africa and the Middle East, particularly Iran; all I ask is that the US government be consistent - why does it continue to penalise Cuba while happily trading with Saudi Arabia etc? Its "ethical principles" fly out the window when big money's involved (the same goes for the UK, French, German and other governments).
As for your assertions that you don't see breadlines in capitalist economies; that immigrants flock to the West because our economies are the most liberal; and that political views can be freely expressed without affecting your career, job prospects etc...... I respectfully disagree!
It would be too easy to misrepresent your comments as a simplistic belief that the only alternative to US-style democracy is Soviet totalitarianism; but I have a strong suspicion that your views are more nuanced than that, which I respect and appreciate.
Anyhow - thanks for your detailed feedback!
Thinker, USA -
Firstly, it was someone else who referred to you as an "e*se". Personal abuse ain't my style!
With all due respect, propaganda isn't a Russian monopoly, just because the USSR, under Stalin, successfully covered up the Ukraine famine, the purges, the Katyn massacre etc.
Of course you are entirely correct to assert that the current regime in the Kremlin has spin-doctors too, merrily creating alternative realities of Russian grandeur while ignoring the demographic timebomb of a shrinking population. Cuba does it too, eg the "120 Club" of senior citizens, and the UK, and China.....
But a simple examination of the facts indicates that US propaganda is the most sophisticated, pervasive and powerful of all, particularly when it comes to enchanting its own citizenry. For example, a majority of Americans are firmly convinced that the USA is the world's most generous donor, per capita, of aid to foreign countries, despite plentiful data indicating that the Scandinavian countries, Japan and others are far ahead of mid-table USA.
US propaganda about the Saddam / 9-11 connection convinced sufficient numbers of US citizens (and senators) to bury their misgivings about Bush's pre-emptive strike against Iraq, with shocking consequences.
And how many Americans are aware (or accept) that the US / UK bombed Iraq with chemical weapons (plutonium shells) for years before 2003?
Even the supposedly "wicked" Cuban regime sends more doctors to Bolivia, Pakistan and other Third World states than the USA, Medicin Sans Frontieres and others combined, although you'd be hard-pushed to hear Humberto Fontova admit as much on primetime US TV.
Yes, I did mention Fox, but also CNN and the BBC. In my view, they're the tip of the iceberg and as bad as each other in terms of uncritically recycling PR, from government, corporations and other bodies with axes to grind. Real journalism is expensive and time-consuming.
If you're not a regular Fox viewer, I apologise unreservedly (it's a foul accusation!). But I suspect that many of your compatriots rely heavily on Fox, the fastest-growing US TV network, which even Ann Coulter admits is far from "fair and balanced".
As an aside - how many US radio "shock jocks" are lefties? Damned few, I'll bet!
BTW you shouldn't assume that all leftists are uncritical of all non-Western regimes. I personally have little time for the governments of Russia, China, Colombia, Italy, Australia and most of Africa and the Middle East, particularly Iran; all I ask is that the US government be consistent - why does it continue to penalise Cuba while happily trading with Saudi Arabia etc? Its "ethical principles" fly out the window when big money's involved (the same goes for the UK, French, German and other governments).
As for your assertions that you don't see breadlines in capitalist economies; that immigrants flock to the West because our economies are the most liberal; and that political views can be freely expressed without affecting your career, job prospects etc...... I respectfully disagree!
It would be too easy to misrepresent your comments as a simplistic belief that the only alternative to US-style democracy is Soviet totalitarianism; but I have a strong suspicion that your views are more nuanced than that, which I respect and appreciate.
Anyhow - thanks for your detailed feedback!
Posted by: Mike Delaney, Milwaukee, Wi on 8:20pm Sat 5 Jul 08
Let's not forget WHO they are talking about when they refer to "American propaganda machine", we all know who owns the media and is trying to seize another form of a Bolshevik revolution of complete Jewish control of America. What that being said it should be no surprise that the executive director for the spying lobby also known as Aipac, Tom Dine was also the president of RFE/RL which means this is just an arm of the Jewish propaganda machine. Lets not also forget that handfuls of Israeli Mossad agents were caught on 9/11 with bombs in their trucks, etc etc by our own FBI and after failing polygragh tests numerous times were later queitly released to Israel by way of Michael Chertoff (dual-citizen of Israel), now director of homeland security and whose mother was one of the founding members of the Israeli Mossad. Red alert, its the self proclaimed "chosen ones" in charge of sinking the ship known as America...
Let's not forget WHO they are talking about when they refer to "American propaganda machine", we all know who owns the media and is trying to seize another form of a Bolshevik revolution of complete Jewish control of America. What that being said it should be no surprise that the executive director for the spying lobby also known as Aipac, Tom Dine was also the president of RFE/RL which means this is just an arm of the Jewish propaganda machine. Lets not also forget that handfuls of Israeli Mossad agents were caught on 9/11 with bombs in their trucks, etc etc by our own FBI and after failing polygragh tests numerous times were later queitly released to Israel by way of Michael Chertoff (dual-citizen of Israel), now director of homeland security and whose mother was one of the founding members of the Israeli Mossad. Red alert, its the self proclaimed "chosen ones" in charge of sinking the ship known as America...
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